diff --git a/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/scaling.py b/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/scaling.py
index 1a230b24b..75b9b87bd 100644
--- a/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/scaling.py
+++ b/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/scaling.py
@@ -691,7 +691,8 @@ class ActivationBalancer(torch.nn.Module):
             return _no_op(x)
 
 
-def penalize_abs_values_gt(x: Tensor, limit: float, penalty: float) -> Tensor:
+def penalize_abs_values_gt(x: Tensor, limit: float, penalty: float,
+                           name: str = None) -> Tensor:
     """
     Returns x unmodified, but in backprop will put a penalty for the excess of
     the absolute values of elements of x over the limit "limit".  E.g. if
@@ -701,6 +702,8 @@ def penalize_abs_values_gt(x: Tensor, limit: float, penalty: float) -> Tensor:
     in automatic mixed precision training.  For this reasons we use this,
     it shouldn't really matter, or may even be helpful; we just use this
     to disallow really implausible values of scores to be given to softmax.
+
+    The name is for randomly printed debug info.
     """
     x_sign = x.sign()
     over_limit = (x.abs() - limit) > 0
@@ -714,7 +717,7 @@ def penalize_abs_values_gt(x: Tensor, limit: float, penalty: float) -> Tensor:
     aux_loss = penalty * ((x_sign * over_limit).to(torch.int8) * x)
     # note: we don't do sum() here on aux)_loss, but it's as if we had done
     # sum() due to how with_loss() works.
-    x = with_loss(x, aux_loss)
+    x = with_loss(x, aux_loss, name)
     # you must use x for something, or this will be ineffective.
     return x
 
@@ -887,17 +890,23 @@ class Whiten(nn.Module):
 
 class WithLoss(torch.autograd.Function):
     @staticmethod
-    def forward(ctx, x: Tensor, y: Tensor):
-        ctx.y_shape = y.shape
+    def forward(ctx, x: Tensor, y: Tensor, name: str):
+        ctx.name = name
+        ctx.save_for_backward(y)  # just for printing the name, and the shape
         return x
     @staticmethod
     def backward(ctx, ans_grad: Tensor):
-        return ans_grad, torch.ones(ctx.y_shape,
+        y, = ctx.saved_tensors
+        if random.random() < 0.002 and ctx.name is not None:
+            loss_sum = y.sum().item()
+            logging.info(f"WithLoss: name={ctx.name}, loss-sum={loss_sum:.3e}")
+
+        return ans_grad, torch.ones(y.shape,
                                     dtype=ans_grad.dtype,
-                                    device=ans_grad.device)
-def with_loss(x, y):
+                                    device=ans_grad.device), None
+def with_loss(x, y, name):
     # returns x but adds y.sum() to the loss function.
-    return WithLoss.apply(x, y)
+    return WithLoss.apply(x, y, name)
 
 
 class ScaleGradFunction(torch.autograd.Function):
diff --git a/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/zipformer.py b/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/zipformer.py
index c2b3e81b2..95dc8b6ae 100644
--- a/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/zipformer.py
+++ b/egs/librispeech/ASR/pruned_transducer_stateless7/zipformer.py
@@ -797,6 +797,8 @@ class AttentionDownsample(torch.nn.Module):
         super(AttentionDownsample, self).__init__()
         self.query = nn.Parameter(torch.randn(in_channels) * (in_channels ** -0.5))
 
+        self.name = None # will be set from training code
+
         # fill in the extra dimensions with a projection of the input
         if out_channels > in_channels:
             self.extra_proj = nn.Linear(in_channels * downsample,
@@ -830,7 +832,8 @@ class AttentionDownsample(torch.nn.Module):
 
         scores =  penalize_abs_values_gt(scores,
                                          limit=20.0,
-                                         penalty=1.0e-04)
+                                         penalty=1.0e-04,
+                                         name=self.name)
 
         weights = scores.softmax(dim=1)
 
@@ -1203,7 +1206,8 @@ class RelPositionMultiheadAttentionWeights(nn.Module):
             # under normal circumstances.
             attn_scores = penalize_abs_values_gt(attn_scores,
                                                  limit=25.0,
-                                                 penalty=1.0e-04)
+                                                 penalty=1.0e-04,
+                                                 name=self.name)
 
         assert attn_scores.shape == (num_heads, batch_size, seq_len, seq_len)
 
@@ -1866,6 +1870,7 @@ class AttentionCombine(nn.Module):
                                                      num_inputs))
         self.bias = torch.nn.Parameter(torch.zeros(num_inputs))
 
+        self.name = None # will be set from training code
         assert 0 <= random_prob <= 1, random_prob
         assert 0 <= single_prob <= 1, single_prob
 
@@ -1922,7 +1927,8 @@ class AttentionCombine(nn.Module):
         if self.training and random.random() < 0.1:
             scores =  penalize_abs_values_gt(scores,
                                              limit=10.0,
-                                             penalty=1.0e-04)
+                                             penalty=1.0e-04,
+                                             name=self.name)
 
         weights = scores.softmax(dim=1)