diff --git a/egs/librispeech/ASR/conformer_ctc/subsampling.py b/egs/librispeech/ASR/conformer_ctc/subsampling.py
index e38a94d09..aa842a31f 100644
--- a/egs/librispeech/ASR/conformer_ctc/subsampling.py
+++ b/egs/librispeech/ASR/conformer_ctc/subsampling.py
@@ -47,11 +47,15 @@ class Conv2dSubsampling(nn.Module):
             nn.Conv2d(
                 in_channels=1, out_channels=odim, kernel_size=3, stride=2
             ),
+            DerivBalancer(channel_dim=1, threshold=0.02,
+                          max_factor=0.02),
             nn.ReLU(),
             ExpScale(odim, 1, 1, speed=20.0),
             nn.Conv2d(
                 in_channels=odim, out_channels=odim, kernel_size=3, stride=2
             ),
+            DerivBalancer(channel_dim=1, threshold=0.02,
+                          max_factor=0.02),
             nn.ReLU(),
             ExpScale(odim, 1, 1, speed=20.0),
         )
@@ -248,6 +252,68 @@ class ExpScaleSwish(torch.nn.Module):
     # return (x * torch.sigmoid(x)) * (self.scale * self.speed).exp()
         # return x * (self.scale * self.speed).exp()
 
+
+
+
+class DerivBalancerFunction(torch.autograd.Function):
+    @staticmethod
+    def forward(ctx, x: Tensor, channel_dim: int,
+                threshold: 0.05, max_factor: 0.05,
+                epsilon: 1.0e-10) -> Tensor:
+        if x.requires_grad:
+            if channel_dim < 0:
+                channel_dim += x.ndim
+            sum_dims = [d for d in range(x.ndim) if d != channel_dim]
+            proportion_positive = torch.mean((x > 0).to(x.dtype), dim=sum_dims, keepdim=True)
+            factor = (threshold - proportion_positive).relu() * (max_factor / threshold)
+
+            ctx.save_for_backward(factor)
+            ctx.epsilon = epsilon
+            ctx.sum_dims = sum_dims
+        return x
+
+    @staticmethod
+    def backward(ctx, x_grad: Tensor) -> Tuple[Tensor, None, None, None, None]:
+        factor, = ctx.saved_tensors
+        neg_delta_grad = x_grad.abs() * factor
+        if ctx.epsilon != 0.0:
+            sum_abs_grad = torch.sum(x_grad.abs(), dim=ctx.sum_dims, keepdim=True)
+            deriv_is_zero = (sum_abs_grad == 0.0)
+            neg_delta_grad += ctx.epsilon * deriv_is_zero
+
+        return x_grad - neg_delta_grad, None, None, None, None
+
+
+
+class DerivBalancer(torch.nn.Module):
+    """
+    Modifies the backpropped derivatives of a function to try to encourage, for
+    each channel, that it is positive at least a proportion `threshold` of the
+    time.  It does this by multiplying negative derivative values by up to
+    (1+max_factor), and positive derivative values by up to (1-max_factor),
+    interpolated from 0 at the threshold to those extremal values when none
+    of the inputs are positive.
+
+    When all grads are zero for a channel, this
+    module sets all the input derivatives for that channel to -epsilon; the
+    idea is to bring completely dead neurons back to life this way.
+    """
+    def __init__(self, channel_dim: int,
+                 threshold: float = 0.05,
+                 max_factor: float = 0.05,
+                 epsilon: float = 1.0e-10):
+        super(DerivBalancer, self).__init__()
+        self.channel_dim = channel_dim
+        self.threshold = threshold
+        self.max_factor = max_factor
+        self.epsilon = epsilon
+
+    def forward(self, x: Tensor) -> Tensor:
+        return DerivBalancerFunction.apply(x, self.channel_dim, self.threshold,
+                                           self.max_factor, self.epsilon)
+
+
+
 def _test_exp_scale_swish():
     class Swish(torch.nn.Module):
         def forward(self, x: Tensor) -> Tensor:
@@ -271,5 +337,26 @@ def _test_exp_scale_swish():
 
 
 
+def _test_deriv_balancer():
+    channel_dim = 0
+    probs = torch.arange(0, 1, 0.01)
+    N = 500
+    x = 1.0 * (torch.rand(probs.numel(), N) < probs.unsqueeze(-1))
+    x = x.detach()
+    x.requires_grad = True
+    m = DerivBalancer(channel_dim=0, threshold=0.05, max_factor=0.2, epsilon=1.0e-10)
+
+    y_grad = torch.sign(torch.randn(probs.numel(), N))
+    y_grad[-1,:] = 0
+
+    y = m(x)
+    y.backward(gradient=y_grad)
+    print("x = ", x)
+    print("y grad = ", y_grad)
+    print("x grad = ", x.grad)
+
+
+
 if __name__ == '__main__':
+    _test_deriv_balancer()
     _test_exp_scale_swish()
diff --git a/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/conformer.py b/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/conformer.py
index 368165008..056958ff6 100644
--- a/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/conformer.py
+++ b/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/conformer.py
@@ -19,7 +19,7 @@ import copy
 import math
 import warnings
 from typing import Optional, Tuple, Sequence
-from subsampling import PeLU, ExpScale, ExpScaleSwish
+from subsampling import PeLU, ExpScale, ExpScaleSwish, DerivBalancer
 
 import torch
 from torch import Tensor, nn
@@ -156,6 +156,8 @@ class ConformerEncoderLayer(nn.Module):
 
         self.feed_forward = nn.Sequential(
             nn.Linear(d_model, dim_feedforward),
+            DerivBalancer(channel_dim=-1, threshold=0.02,
+                          max_factor=0.02),
             ExpScaleSwish(dim_feedforward, speed=20.0),
             nn.Dropout(dropout),
             nn.Linear(dim_feedforward, d_model),
@@ -163,6 +165,8 @@ class ConformerEncoderLayer(nn.Module):
 
         self.feed_forward_macaron = nn.Sequential(
             nn.Linear(d_model, dim_feedforward),
+            DerivBalancer(channel_dim=-1, threshold=0.02,
+                          max_factor=0.02),
             ExpScaleSwish(dim_feedforward, speed=20.0),
             nn.Dropout(dropout),
             nn.Linear(dim_feedforward, d_model),
diff --git a/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/train.py b/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/train.py
index 973733d4b..6d6b3f240 100755
--- a/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/train.py
+++ b/egs/librispeech/ASR/transducer_stateless/train.py
@@ -110,7 +110,7 @@ def get_parser():
     parser.add_argument(
         "--exp-dir",
         type=str,
-        default="transducer_stateless/specaugmod_baseline_randcombine1_expscale5",
+        default="transducer_stateless/specaugmod_baseline_randcombine1_expscale5_brelu",
         help="""The experiment dir.
         It specifies the directory where all training related
         files, e.g., checkpoints, log, etc, are saved